So we received our fine today.
A couple of weeks back, we were skating at our favourite spot, seshing a corner. Due to one of our spotters failing to do their job, one of us had a close run in with a car. Not really a big deal, guy slid off and stopped just as his legs went under the front of the car, lady driver was frightened and we apologized, she told us that it was a good thing we had helmets and pads on and told us to be more careful next time. We apologized again and she drove off.
Later a cop shows up and asks us what we were up to. We told him we were just skating up and down that part of the road. He then told us that someone called and told him there was an accident, and he wanted us to leave the place as what were doing was dangerous. We obliged and started packing our things to leave.
Just as we were about to leave, one of us skated ahead, moments later he came back and told us that the cop was further down of the hill, and warned him that he couldn't skate down. Now the bus stop was at the bottom of the hill, and the idea of walking all the way down did not seem pleasant to us. So we decided to just footbrake down the hill, keeping our speed at jogging pace. We then passed the cop on the way down (we were still footbraking all the way). He then told us to stop, which we did, he then took our details down and told us that we would be receiving a fine in the mail.
The road we were skating had a 50kph speed limit, and when he stopped us we were footbraking down an unmarked stretch of the road, we never exceeded the speed limit. The whole time we were talking to the cop, we were respectful and calm. We received our fine in the mail today, and he fined us under RR 241 (1) "Travel improperly on a road on a wheeled recreational device". We plan to appeal this as we are confident we did not break any such law, but we would like to ask your opinions first on this matter.
So what do you guys think?
Later a cop shows up and asks us what we were up to. We told him we were just skating up and down that part of the road. He then told us that someone called and told him there was an accident, and he wanted us to leave the place as what were doing was dangerous. We obliged and started packing our things to leave.
Just as we were about to leave, one of us skated ahead, moments later he came back and told us that the cop was further down of the hill, and warned him that he couldn't skate down. Now the bus stop was at the bottom of the hill, and the idea of walking all the way down did not seem pleasant to us. So we decided to just footbrake down the hill, keeping our speed at jogging pace. We then passed the cop on the way down (we were still footbraking all the way). He then told us to stop, which we did, he then took our details down and told us that we would be receiving a fine in the mail.
The road we were skating had a 50kph speed limit, and when he stopped us we were footbraking down an unmarked stretch of the road, we never exceeded the speed limit. The whole time we were talking to the cop, we were respectful and calm. We received our fine in the mail today, and he fined us under RR 241 (1) "Travel improperly on a road on a wheeled recreational device". We plan to appeal this as we are confident we did not break any such law, but we would like to ask your opinions first on this matter.
So what do you guys think?
Views: 85
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robbo on
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The local court has a conviction rate of about 90% this drops to about 50% in the district court however the majority of cases in the local court are not appeals or more accurately contested cases, they are just minor offenses that require a court date e.g. public order offenses like drunkenness, public nuisance, drink driving, speeding over a certain limit, just general things that police are not allowed to just issue a ticket and complete the conviction for. It is also used to contest lower order offences like parking tickets but most people just accept these tickets. Hence it is setup by design to convict people but mostly people who are not contesting an offense just people who show up because the law requires that a magistrate must issue the conviction rather than Police.
It is an interesting place to sit around and watch, its like the express checkout of justice. Most cases take in the order of 30sec to a minute to rule on and the magistrate may do 200 in a day. the prosecutor stands up and reads the charge, the defendant tends not to contest, the magistrate issues conviction and fine and everybody moves on. Its like the dole queue a big line of people just shuffle along and are issued their 30secs of justice.
Occasionally somebody contests a fine and you are likely to get 5mins max to complete the entire case so you have to be very clear and concise and ready to explain the law briefly but intently and it helps to have statements of people present during the offense to assist the magistrate in the case. You will need to obtain a copy of the police 'statement of facts' prior to the case so you don't have the police say anything unexpected. don't assume the 'statement of facts' is actually a statement of true facts its just called that by the police, the magistrate does not look at it as true fact he just uses it to understand the case. So you need to be ready clearly state all relevant evidence and opinion very quickly and clearly. This type of court does not look kindly on contestants or police wasting their time with irrelevant information. Work out what you will say, write it out and memorise it, have a copy of it and read from it if you have to but do it clearly and briskly and refer to the relevant law as much as possible
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by Bugs on -
That's a very good summary of what the Local Court is like. Guess you've spent a bit of time there Robbo?
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by sean meaney on -
Bugs said:This case is gonna be at the Local Court. There's no judge, just a magistrate. There's probably no journalist there to witness it. Nobody pays much attention to the Local Court - it's a clearing house for the lowest level of offence. Hell, the police may not even show up. By arguing your case at the Local Court you're not really escalating the issue - it's still under the radar. Even if you win, the chances are that neither the police or media will notice or care. Your chances of winning are a bit of a lottery though - some magistrates will side with the police on every issue, regardless of the law or the facts. Others are more open-minded.
If you lose the case, and then appeal it, the appeal will probably be held at the District Court where you've got a judge, and there'll be a journalist there looking for "crime" stories. It's a much bigger deal. Appealing is really taking on the system and the system sits up a bit and notices.
thats pretty much it, this case has no real grounds in terms of the police side of things so if you decide to take it far your going to have alot of good ground to stand on with it, it might be a small fine but the precident you can set with it would save everyone alot of money in the long time, your also going to have a top lawyer backing you 100% with it, its your call, if it was me i wouldnt back down ever.
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by haggy on -
Go to court. Look at it as a fun and interesting experience.
The cop is erroneous in giving you guys the ticket, as it sounds like you were skating on a road where 'wheeled recreational devices' are allowed. Point out to the magistrate why you were allowed to skate on the road.
As hop said, be polite and dress well. This is very important. You are entering the magistrate's courtroom and if you do not respect the magistrate they will likely not respect you. Go a bit early and watch some of the proceedings to get a sense for how things happen.
I'd very curious to hear how it goes. Let us know.
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by sean meaney on -
and gilbert no matter what DO NOT SAY THREE
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i have an interesting past
Bugs said:That's a very good summary of what the Local Court is like. Guess you've spent a bit of time there Robbo?
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sean there is no precedent set inside a local court, a magistrate is unable to create precedent only a judge can create precedent which starts at the district court. but is does clarify it for the fuz and the magistrate for future interactions with skateboarders and will make the public prosecutor less inclined to contest these cases in the future
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Permalink Reply by Sean on
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I tend to agree with Robbo / Hop etc, there's unlikely to be any major downside to going to court.
Also, its good to know one of my recommendations worked out for you!
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Permalink Reply by Oscar on
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Are they allowed to have people sit and watch the case? Cause im totally going along with some signs and stuff.
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by Bugs on -
Oscar said:Are they allowed to have people sit and watch the case? Cause im totally going along with some signs and stuff.
Anybody can go and watch proceedings at the Local Court, but it's rare that people do, and the magistrates and court workers and police aren't used to the idea. It's not set up for spectators - it won't be clear where to go, where to sit, and even if you are allowed to be there, even though every member of the public has the right to watch.
Carrying a sign and making a spectacle isn't a good idea - better to be quiet and anonymous or otherwise you'll just annoy people. You don't want to look like you're fighting the man 'cos the man responds badly to that and the man can squash you easily.
Just my advice...
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Fendy on -
We will first send in a letter appealing our case with our evidence on why we think we're wrongfully charged. If they don't waiver our fine, then we'll have the choice of taking it to court or paying the full fine.
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by sean meaney on -
Oscar said:
if you do go to watch oscar you do need to dressed very well and appear neat and tidy, i have been to a few courts in my time dealing with both the police and civil issues and they really frown uppon someone who is not presentable so if you go, pants shirt and a tie are a must, a full suite and clean shaven is the bestAre they allowed to have people sit and watch the case? Cause im totally going along with some signs and stuff.
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