So we received our fine today.
A couple of weeks back, we were skating at our favourite spot, seshing a corner. Due to one of our spotters failing to do their job, one of us had a close run in with a car. Not really a big deal, guy slid off and stopped just as his legs went under the front of the car, lady driver was frightened and we apologized, she told us that it was a good thing we had helmets and pads on and told us to be more careful next time. We apologized again and she drove off.
Later a cop shows up and asks us what we were up to. We told him we were just skating up and down that part of the road. He then told us that someone called and told him there was an accident, and he wanted us to leave the place as what were doing was dangerous. We obliged and started packing our things to leave.
Just as we were about to leave, one of us skated ahead, moments later he came back and told us that the cop was further down of the hill, and warned him that he couldn't skate down. Now the bus stop was at the bottom of the hill, and the idea of walking all the way down did not seem pleasant to us. So we decided to just footbrake down the hill, keeping our speed at jogging pace. We then passed the cop on the way down (we were still footbraking all the way). He then told us to stop, which we did, he then took our details down and told us that we would be receiving a fine in the mail.
The road we were skating had a 50kph speed limit, and when he stopped us we were footbraking down an unmarked stretch of the road, we never exceeded the speed limit. The whole time we were talking to the cop, we were respectful and calm. We received our fine in the mail today, and he fined us under RR 241 (1) "Travel improperly on a road on a wheeled recreational device". We plan to appeal this as we are confident we did not break any such law, but we would like to ask your opinions first on this matter.
So what do you guys think?
Later a cop shows up and asks us what we were up to. We told him we were just skating up and down that part of the road. He then told us that someone called and told him there was an accident, and he wanted us to leave the place as what were doing was dangerous. We obliged and started packing our things to leave.
Just as we were about to leave, one of us skated ahead, moments later he came back and told us that the cop was further down of the hill, and warned him that he couldn't skate down. Now the bus stop was at the bottom of the hill, and the idea of walking all the way down did not seem pleasant to us. So we decided to just footbrake down the hill, keeping our speed at jogging pace. We then passed the cop on the way down (we were still footbraking all the way). He then told us to stop, which we did, he then took our details down and told us that we would be receiving a fine in the mail.
The road we were skating had a 50kph speed limit, and when he stopped us we were footbraking down an unmarked stretch of the road, we never exceeded the speed limit. The whole time we were talking to the cop, we were respectful and calm. We received our fine in the mail today, and he fined us under RR 241 (1) "Travel improperly on a road on a wheeled recreational device". We plan to appeal this as we are confident we did not break any such law, but we would like to ask your opinions first on this matter.
So what do you guys think?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robbo on
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Given that the policeman did not witness the prior incident than any evidence presented to the court regards in that respect would be considered inadmissible due to hearsay rules. Unless they had the woman present in court as a witness. It would than be your word against hers. A statement to the court from the woman cannot be submitted as evidence on its own, a statement can only be submitted to a court proceeding when it regards the character of a person e.g. reference. A policeman cannot say you broke the law because somebody told them you did. It becomes even weaker when the offense you were ticketed for is based on a reasonable level of opinion from a person who spoke to an operator who then spoke to dispatch who then spoke to an officer who then spoke to you. It looks like a weak as piss ticket to me. If the police tried to present a statement of facts to the court in those circumstances it would look like a joke.
With respect to the prior incident there is no need to attempt to incriminate yourself as he has not listed any of this on the ticket. I would ask the court to effectively ignore anything that may or may not have occurred prior to your relevant interaction with the second officer
Gilbert said:are you saying that the little incident with the car before the cop showed up will not hurt our case robbo?
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As far as being a wheel recreational device you don't have to obey any regular road rules, you can travel on the wrong side of the road, you can skate backwards, you could skate at 100km/h, you can even skate on your head if you like. The rules relate to where and when you can do it not how you do it. For all intensive purposes you are more like a pedestrian than a car.
As bugs said if you do it yourself you have to do it very confidently
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Fendy on -
There are 3 of us that got charged and we intend to appeal all as 1 case
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Vic laws on skateboards
Skateboard, rollerblade and scooter laws
There is a section in the Victorian Road Rules specifically for skaters and other users of ‘wheeled recreational devices’, like rollerblades and collapsible scooters. Users of these devices are considered pedestrians, rather than riders or drivers.
You can't use a skateboard, scooter, rollerblades or other 'wheeled recreational device' on roads with two-way traffic or with more than one marked lane, or on a road with a speed limit of more than 60 kilometres per hour.
On other types of road, you must keep as close to the left hand side as practicable and must not travel more than two abreast with other pedestrians or vehicles, unless overtaking.
The law also says that:
* skaters do not have to wear helmets
* when travelling on a footpath or shared path, your must keep as far left as practicable and give way to any walking pedestrians
* if you are using a bicycle path or a separated footpath (a path for walkers and riders/skaters) you must not be on the side of the path for pedestrians unless you are crossing the path by the shortest safe route and do not stay on the path for longer than necessary; you must also must keep out of the way of any bicycle
* you can't be towed by a moving vehicle.
Skaters also have to obey the road rules that apply to pedestrians, including:
* obeying traffic signals
* crossing a road, railway line or tram tracks by the shortest and safest route
* not causing a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver
* not using a bicycle path or that part of a separated footpath designated for use by bicycles
* not getting into, or out of, a moving vehicle.
In victoria the rules change to 50km/h or less from the 9th November. The only relevant bit that relates to the offense is within the laws for pedestrians "not causing a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver". As I said before no officer witnessed any of this so it is all just hearsay and it is nothing I would admit to.
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by sean meaney on -
Fendy said:
thats hands down the best move to make, best of luck with it mate you know you guys have my support 100% of the time and if you have to end up paying i will pay some of the costs too, i was there that day rideing the same road, i got lucky with the copThere are 3 of us that got charged and we intend to appeal all as 1 case
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Permalink Reply by Gilbert on
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Thanks all for your input, robbo especially for all the info you've given.
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So we were talking this over, and we wonder:
by taking this to court, would it be a bad thing in the long run as it might make dh skating more known to the authorities, and hence they'll will be more vigilant of our activities in the future? That cop that issued the fine certainly won't be happy that he has to appear in court, we're definitely not making friends with the police within that area then.
We really don't want to have any heat on us and risk having that heat affect everyone else that skates.
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by bernie on -
Gilbert, you beat me too it....my thoughts anyway!
Apart from it looking like you have been dealt a really good hand, I expect that the cops have the name and address of the lady motorist that you mentioned, as you noted that there was a reported accident. (she was probably freaked out by the incident to the point where she just had to report it).
So don't count on them only relying on hearsay evidence, which means that the "causing a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver" bit could actually stick, for at least one of you.
I suspect that what ever happens there will be media coverage as a result, because the bored court room journalist will suddenly be all ears when you front the bench.
This could lead to those elected thinking about it even just a tiny bit, cause we all know that they are vitally concerned about our safety, and won't rest easy until they know that all the little old ladies, or seasoned truck drivers will no longer need to fear chest palpitations brought on by suddenly running across mobile speed humps, ever again.
Which could lead to discussion in parliment...........................(here is some more dots to join..................).
If at all possible, please pay the fine quietly, or try to appeal this one quietly. You might be able to do that by setting out your case in writing to the court first. Check with the Barrister mentioned here, or call the clerk of courts to find out how it can be appealed quietly.
I know there is a principle at stake here, but, the very last thing we need is politicians thinking about this at all, ever.
or
The local cops being pissed off because a $58 slap on the wrist turns into a stack of paperwork and a day in court because of someone did not completely understand a request to stop the dangerous activity and go away.
If money is the reason for not paying up quietly, we can pass the hat around on Wednesday nights.
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Permalink Reply by Oscar on
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But!
What if you were to look at it the other way? Maybe if more people knew about this, even though it may mean we have to watch where we skate a little more cautiously, we could get the government to make us a DOWNHILL SKATEBOARDING/LUGE PARK!!??? Cause once were not legally allowed to skate on the roads, where else will we skate ;)
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I would appeal, I don't think the incident is particularly controversial. As far as the copper goes remember a complaint is against the copper, an appeal is against the state. I doubt the copper would give two hoots if you appeal or not, going to court a few days a month for trivial offenses is kinda what cops do. Given that there was no proscriptive law broken and no controversial video or identity to go with it, it is unlikely the media will care much either. You just need to indicate that you were utilising a longboard for transport to your home on what you believe the law indicates is a legitimate road for that purpose. If you had safety gear on you would also indicate that. You say you had no intent to break the law and don't believe that you were.
What you don't say is that you speedboard at other times for fun, that you had a close interaction with a car. You just stick to very relevant information. If that really does come up you just say "I slipped on my skateboard" and a car stopped in front of me without any further incident. The lady in question does not know why you may have ended up in front of her car. You guys also got 3 tickets and I doubt 3 people committed the same offense. In a drink driving case a policeman cannot also issue a ticket to the passenger and the guy standing next to the car, and the guy in the car behind the car in question.This is not the principle at High school this is the legal system. It would be unlikely the lady could even point a finger at who was involved in what.
local cops get pissed about drunk people assaulting them, attending domestic violence cases, street parties and local hoons drag racing I don't think this is an incident we would be too concerned about, this is a trivial misdemeanor. If anything it may clarify the law for them that riding a skateboard is not a crime all of the time and that it is better to initiate positive interactions with young people rather than hound them and fine them for undertaking a heathy sport and using an environmentally sound method of transport.
From an ASRA standpoint we are not really about changing the laws to allow speedboarding, that will likely never happen (we are looking at creating a facility for this). However we are about clarifying and legitimising the safe use of skateboards for transport and leisure within the current guidelines of which most police are not fully aware. We are also interested in changing the laws to enforce a greater amount of safety with a less restricted use.
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by Bugs on -
This case is gonna be at the Local Court. There's no judge, just a magistrate. There's probably no journalist there to witness it. Nobody pays much attention to the Local Court - it's a clearing house for the lowest level of offence. Hell, the police may not even show up. By arguing your case at the Local Court you're not really escalating the issue - it's still under the radar. Even if you win, the chances are that neither the police or media will notice or care. Your chances of winning are a bit of a lottery though - some magistrates will side with the police on every issue, regardless of the law or the facts. Others are more open-minded.
If you lose the case, and then appeal it, the appeal will probably be held at the District Court where you've got a judge, and there'll be a journalist there looking for "crime" stories. It's a much bigger deal. Appealing is really taking on the system and the system sits up a bit and notices.
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Permalink Reply by Hop on
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I think it is important for all people to be involved in the legal system, especially young people. We all watch way too much TV. We see the bad or controversial side of the legal system. What you see on entertainment TV shows is mostly the American legal system that has very little to do with our legal system. So no interrupting with "your badgering the witness" ha.
See it as a learning experience. You are learning about our legal system. And the legal system is learning about longboarding. Every positive interaction with the law is an important step in getting better undertanding about our sport and getting better access to government.
Please be respectful. You will be entering someones place of work. Dress appropriately. Pants, collared shirt - no "downhill ruined my life" t-shirts. Addess the magistrate with respect. They are the boss in the court room. Make it clear to start that this is your first time in a court, then they'll understand any slip ups, you are there because you do not think you were breaking the law. It is clear you were not.
Unless everyone is having a bad day, you will be some welcome relief to the court. Do not be surprised if they ask a lot of questions.
No matter what the judgement. It is a win win for the sport. You stand up and get a law clarified, you did not break that law it is a win. Court comes down hard, you lose, it is still a win for the sport. We are getting on some radars. If the legal system starts pursuing skaters on roads then the federal, state and local government will need to start building sports facilities for our sport. If the media gets involved we have our media savvy President Haggy to save the day.
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