The Great Debate: Helmets: Aero Vs Moto "neck injuries"?
Neck injuries?
All I can say about this is that the argument that "you will get neck injuries" from wearing a motorcycle helmet is a negative answer to a more important safety issue, protecting your head. We should positively endorse the wearing of all helmets, not let small arguments put skaters off. Why do we have to make people feel bad over something that could save their lives and their faces? The main thing is a motorbike helmet is a full face helmet. A friggin solid one too,... designed for maximum aerodynamics and protection for ON ROAD crashes, up to and over 100+kph!! Doesn't that sound like the same sort of crash environment we are in when we speedboard? Much closer to what we do than doing dirt jumps or hang gliding/flying. :/
Sure you can spend 500 on a helmet and have a really lightweight lid, and also be so-so fashionable at the local sesh, but I feel there are trade offs with all three possibilities and all have their pros and cons-
Motorbike helmets,
Mountain Bike helmets and
Glider helmets
Motorbike helmets are heavier, but tougher. They have a visor which is really handy. They also could save your life. Second hand these will cost peanuts, but dont get one that is so old that the foam inside is hard.
Some of the sort of crashes you might expect in a motorbike accident involve hitting solid objects, being thrown, slamming onto tarmac, and getting hit from behind (which must be a serious whiplash issue).
In studies under these conditions (on-road motorbike accident) there were neck injuries in some cases, but the protection to the head statistics far out-weighed the neck issue. If the same accident occurred without a helmet (the one that caused neck injuries), it is highly probable that the same neck injuries would occur, however it is doubtful that the accident victim would have survived. If you get neck injuries from a fall, it may not just be the weight of the helmet that caused it, it might be the way you fell.
Maybe one day you will pull a muscle in your neck when you fall off your skateboard, but this depends on the kind of fall. In my opinion, it is better to have more protection for your head.
If some skater buys a helmet like this, he should not be discouraged. This is good protection.
If you are worried about your neck get a foam racing neck brace. Probably not such a stupid idea for MTB and aero users either.
Just be aware that you cant hear ambient skating noise as well in these.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 1 out of 3
MTB helmets seem to be a happier medium. Light and medium priced. Still mainly designed for MTB crashes which are mostly off road, (but still gnarly) and at speeds mostly under 60kph. Yeah MOTO X and MTB helmets have a different shape than ON ROAD motorbike helmets. Wouldn't you think that they have done studies on the kind of accidents both sports have, and tailor-made the helmet to provide protection under their respective conditions? Not really very aero,... but a MTB isn't a very aero thing either.
Downside to the MTB helmet is the lack of a visor. I have seen home made visors that work, and I have seen some that seem to restrict vision. Think to yourself, if you are moving at 60kph and a snake or lizard or even a stick is on the ground, do you want to see it before you hit it? Its hard enough to see through the shadows of the trees without taking away some more visual clarity. What about pot holes? Do you want to see them?? A DIY visor could be a bigger player in you having a crash, so make sure you take it into consideration.
Why not go for goggles? You might see better.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 2 out of 3
Glider helmets. Very expensive.
So what kind of impact would you expect one of these to protect you from? I imagine it can't really protect you from a full plummet from the sky. It must have some protection from tree branches, cliff faces and maybe being skewered by the aluminum tubes that make up your ultralight. I don't believe the shells of the Glider helmet are as solid as a motorbike helmet, or possibly even a MTB helmet. I may not be right, but we are starting to see more high speed crashes from people wearing these, and I am scared that the statistics arent looking good. If there is official data on the safety of these in the sort of accidents you guys are having in these Id like to see it. But I do know the riders that generally wear these are more seasoned, and may not fall off as much.
Would I feel protected if I wore an Icaro on a motorbike or scooter? Somehow I don't think so.
These helmets do look good though. I'm sure they protect you to some extent, but its a bit of a grey area huh?
Plus side is good hearing, good vision, and they look super cool.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 3 out of 3
What helmet you wear is your choice, just wear one.
The best choice is wearing a helmet.
Now I might be being a little bit harsh in my opinions, but Id like to discuss this issue with you guys because we do have a lot of people who own and wear glider helmets.
I agree they are cool and kind of "elite", but are they really suitable for our sport? Will a light weight helmet save you?
Do we hate on motorbike helmets to make us feel better about wearing an overpriced ineffective helmet? Shouldnt we encourage all helmets and look at head protection with no BS?
Please discuss.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Guff on
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I am talking about deaths and serious spinal injuries and i am not advocating wearing any particular style of helmet but am allowing for people to make up their own minds based on evidence... I mean seriously a couple of people got a sore neck so you want to outlaw the use of a helmet that is rated for road use in Australia....Seems like a decision made by a dodgy kangaroo court... We do most of our riding on the road don't we ???
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Permalink Reply by Robbo on
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There is nothing Kangaroo about it. Motorcycle helmets impair your vision, impair your balance, and impair your hearing when riding skateboards. They also increase the force at which your head hits the road. Kids ride scooters on the rd but we dont tell them to wear a motorcycle helmet.
Your argument Guff is kind of a moot point, everybody that has posted here have advised people to wear a helmet all of the time. Very few skateboarders here wear a motorcycle helmet and for very good reasons which have been explained to you at great length. If you refuse to listen or understand what these people are saying than that's upto you. -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Lance and Josh on -
so what about a Motorbike helmet that weighs only 200grams more than a icaro or bell drop , ie full carbon fibre
they are available now with full ratings and not a grand like they used to be...same price as a charlie , see pic attached - Attachments:
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by sean meaney on -
Yes when you get hit by a car your fucked, i think moto lids are no good, i have skated in one before and it was not safe just from a vision and weight point of view, I think in situations where there is a chance of traffic etc then a MX helmet is not such a bad idea, yes jackson when you get hit by a car your fucked no matter what, but if you have a MX lid your going to be alot less fucked then if you get hit wearing an icaro, to me an MX lid feels like a good compromise because you get good vision out of the things, and its solid as hell, yes you might get a sore neck or what ever, if you have half an idea how to fall and wear them enough the weight difference (in terms of being able to look where your falling) is not noticable. Personally i ride an MX lid and think its the best choice for the situations i ride in, which often involve traffic
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Permalink Reply by matty leadfoot on
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Thanks for all of your valid comments,... sorry I missed all of this while it was all going down last night.
I think you guys have some great arguments.
IGSA have some pretty interesting rules regarding helmets. They allow motorbike helmets (am I right?) but they also allow this sort of thing.
Im pretty sure Erik doesnt have very good vision in this. :]
I know that vision isnt the key in a helmet in this, being aero is. He has made a choice and the trade off is his responsibility.
This is what Im trying to say,..... make your own choice, just wear a friggin helmet. Yesterday we had a skater in a MIG fighter helmet. Im not gonna tell him its not safe enough,... or is an irresponsible choice. At least he is wearing a lid and is aware of the pros and cons of the helmet.
So anyway heres a story for you that might be interesting.
Im driving the car and runnng a sweeper while the boys do a run. There is also another car being driven as a sweeper but on taking off he let some dickhead [in a BMW] in the space between us and the skater. The grom is riding with this car tailgating him down the hill for 1.5 kms.
I thought he would let the car pass but he just kept on riding holding his place on the lane.
We get to the bottom and I pick the kid up.
"boy that guy in the beamer was putting pressure on you the whole way down"
"what guy in the beamer?"
MTB helmet. Great vision/hearing not being used.
You say we need great vision and hearing, but maybe there is some basics to be learned in road awareness, and making use of these features of a helmet.
My concern is the safety of the helmet goes down with the visual and aural improvements.
Also on mountainbike helmets. Dont you think the visor plays some part in the safety of the helmet? If the helmet does a face first the visor and the chinbar take the brunt of the impact. The visor probably breaks at a certain point but by this time its done its job and slightly slowed the helmet from the force of impact.
Anyone ever thought that removing the visor might be a bad idea? Great for aero (in theory). Is it an important part of the design? Im sure they crash test these with the visor ON. -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by sidecar nic on -
Jacko, this is a debate and your opinion isn't the only one that counts....
Jacko said:There should be no further discussion
The other thing that no one has mentioned yet is that helmets are disposable items - I agree that motorcycle helmets are big, heavy, cumbersome and impair vision and audability but they're also a lot more affordable and accessible than some of the other options we have at present since there is no specific helmet for downhill skateboarding.
Im curious to know how many people here have replaced their helmet as a precautionery measure after a big accident? Have you done a quick visual inspection and decided that its ok or sold it to a grom and replaced it? -
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A couple of years ago Jacko came to Adelaide and I picked him up from the airport. I had a look at his Icaro and there was a hole in the very tip at the back of the helmet, probably big enough to poke the tip of your little finger into. You could see right inside the tail. Not much in there.
In a slide across the road dont you think the tail will hit and try to dig in like an pickaxe? Obviously Jackos helmet had been in a few stacks. It was probably in many more after that.
I dunno if he raced in it after that, I suppose photos could prove if he did. Maybe tech inspection doesnt mind these things. Maybe it wasnt big enough to worry about. Maybe he is Jacko and he gets to slip through.
With a bike helmet, they say you should dispose of it after it has been in a stack. Giro even used to take your helmet for data and give you a replacement.
I think Demon has a point. How many of you crash and keep the helmet and continue to use it for years afterwards?
To the side arguing against motorcycle helmets, personal experience is not enough. Can we please have more solid evidence?
If IGSA allow them why do you guys have such a problem with them? Do IGSA allow them?
Heres some more food for thought-
Timeship Racing-
The TimeShip workshop takes a high quality Moto-cross helmet and installs a custom Lexan face shield to provide the largest visibility window possible for skateboard racing. Lightweight size small is 2.4lbs, size large is 2.9lbs. Padded chin strap, removable, washable liner and high-flow removable chrome mouth vent. This is our choice for entry level riders, made of a thermo-plastic poly alloy shell, it`s DOT approved protection against asphalt.
The GMAX come in all sizes and wild colors. Contact us with your questions regarding fit and color availability.
And this one I certainly believe is a real downhill helmet.
The Predator
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Trav on -
"To the side arguing against motorcycle helmets, personal experience is not enough. Can we please have more solid evidence?"
go find it yourself, no one here is a Research and Developer for DH specific helmets and crashes... all we have is personal experiences and all of which point away from heavier helmets.
the closest "research' we have for DH is the fact that a huge percentage of the worlds faster riders wear paragliding and mtb helmets and between them have crashed 1000's of times with little or no problem. i'm not sure why you are trying to steer people away from these helmets.
Demon - MTB helmets are just as cheap new as Moto Helmets... -
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Lance Evans and Josh (14 yrs) said:so what about a Motorbike helmet that weighs only 200grams more than a icaro or bell drop , ie full carbon fibre
they are available now with full ratings and not a grand like they used to be...same price as a charlie , see pic attached
Hahahahaaa, funny enough thats roughly the weight of a gopro.
Of course its important to add weight to your helmet so you can see how rad you and your mates look. ;D -
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Rjays missile II MTB helmet retails at the Hopshop for $119. The problem with grom motorcycle helmets is that I have never seen a grom buy one brand new because they are very expansive to buy new. They have them because people are always throwing them out, They are usually acquired from a dad, brother, uncle or friend who has no use for it. They are also easy to get from a cash converters second hand which is not an advisable thing to do.
the Demon said:The other thing that no one has mentioned yet is that helmets are disposable items - I agree that motorcycle helmets are big, heavy, cumbersome and impair vision and audability but they're also a lot more affordable and accessible than some of the other options we have at present since there is no specific helmet for downhill skateboarding. Im curious to know how many people here have replaced their helmet as a precautionary measure after a big accident? Have you done a quick visual inspection and decided that its ok or sold it to a grom and replaced it? -
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I don't see doctor in front of anyones name here and i believe anyone involved within the medical profession would have serious doubts as to the validity of some of the advice given here especially considering the audience of young impressionable children who are listening. There is a definite grey area surrounding what we do and find it hard to stomach a decision to advise kids not to wear the only helmet that is rated for the road at the speeds we can go. You must have had good advice from people very experienced in these matters. I am sure there would be many motorcycle riders who are glad they wore a motorcycle helmet when they hit a pole or car.....If the logic reads true they would have been better off wearing an icaro????
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