Car / skateboard crash - driver claiming damages (NSW)
Hi!
There seems to be a decent knowledge base on the forums about skateboarding and the law, so I thought Id ask a question that is worrying me.
I was riding my longboard to work one day and had an accident with a car. I was coming down a hill, towards a roundabout. I left space to run it out if needed, nothing was coming on the right, and the cars on the left were slowing. It looked like they were going to give way (as they should do for a vehicle or rider in my position) so I kept heading through. Turns out the guy hadnt even seen me til I was in the process of denting his bonnet. I was mildly injured but my employer insisted workcover would cover my injury treatment since I was on the way to work. So I kind of forgot about it until I get a claim against me in the mail 2 months later, for damages to his car.
If I was considered a vehicle or a rider, then I would have had right of way in the situation and the guy who hit me would be in trouble. However if I was a pedestrian, he would also be in trouble supposedly because you have to give way to pedestrians if there is risk of collision. The senior constable at the local copshop didnt know whether I was liable on a skateboard, he could only tell me with certainty that it is illegal to skate on the road. And yes unfortunately the road did have a dividing line (50km/hr speed limit).
Can anyone tell me thei thoughts on liability in this situation. My car is insured and I have business insurance (Public Liability) however both appear to have clauses that seem to exclude this situation (ie car insurance only covers liability by my vehicle or 'a substitute motor vehicle' which obviously doesnt include a skateboard. And the business insurance suggests liability is not covered when participating in sports.) I am seeking legal aid, and feeling pretty worried.
Any help would be appreciated!
There seems to be a decent knowledge base on the forums about skateboarding and the law, so I thought Id ask a question that is worrying me.
I was riding my longboard to work one day and had an accident with a car. I was coming down a hill, towards a roundabout. I left space to run it out if needed, nothing was coming on the right, and the cars on the left were slowing. It looked like they were going to give way (as they should do for a vehicle or rider in my position) so I kept heading through. Turns out the guy hadnt even seen me til I was in the process of denting his bonnet. I was mildly injured but my employer insisted workcover would cover my injury treatment since I was on the way to work. So I kind of forgot about it until I get a claim against me in the mail 2 months later, for damages to his car.
If I was considered a vehicle or a rider, then I would have had right of way in the situation and the guy who hit me would be in trouble. However if I was a pedestrian, he would also be in trouble supposedly because you have to give way to pedestrians if there is risk of collision. The senior constable at the local copshop didnt know whether I was liable on a skateboard, he could only tell me with certainty that it is illegal to skate on the road. And yes unfortunately the road did have a dividing line (50km/hr speed limit).
Can anyone tell me thei thoughts on liability in this situation. My car is insured and I have business insurance (Public Liability) however both appear to have clauses that seem to exclude this situation (ie car insurance only covers liability by my vehicle or 'a substitute motor vehicle' which obviously doesnt include a skateboard. And the business insurance suggests liability is not covered when participating in sports.) I am seeking legal aid, and feeling pretty worried.
Any help would be appreciated!
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Replies to This Discussion
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by Bugs on -
Haggy is a lawyer, so I'd listen to him, even though He Is Not Giving You Legal Advice.
Yes, it was illegal for you to be skating on that road, but that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the claim against you. According to the road rules you were essentially a pedestrian/child-playing-on-a-toy, and drivers have certain responsibilities towards that, even if you were not allowed to be playing on a toy on that road.
I consider a driver "not seeing" to be an admission of guilt rather than an excuse, but many people differ on that. It's a very grey area regarding your liability towards other road users, even though it's clear-cut that you were breaking a law at the time.
Re the business insurance not covering "sport" - you were doing "transport", not "sport".
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by James on -
In my experience in insurance it doesn't matter what vehicle you were using. If the other driver fails to yield right of way, they are at fault. I have come across this sort of scenario a few times and have always held the driver at fault. This was escalated to management on two occasions and my desision upheld.
Chances are they are just trying it on because their client is hasseling them to waive the excess, or they are trying to make their stats look good. Management may not support their desision and probably wouldn't risk taking you to court, especially if it is less than $1000 damage (no guarantee though, sometimes they will try to prove a point)
if it wasn't dark (or you had lights) I reckon you should send them a letter of demand for the damage to your skateboard and clothes and whatever else of your property got damaged.
What insurance company is it?
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Permalink Reply by J-mo on
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Hey guys. Thanks for all the great advice.
It was daytime - morning peak hour ( the guy was clearly in travelling to work zombie mode)
The insurance company is GIO.
My business insurance clause states it excludes
personal injury or property damage of any person arising directly or indirectly out of or in any way connected with the actual participation of such person in in any sport, exercise or activity such as but not limited to aerobics, athletics, football, aquatic, aerial or equestrian activity.
So maybe I am covered after all. Because he suffered the property damage and he wasnt playing sports.
The pickle lies in that 'wheeled skate toys' are clearly classed as pedestrians not vehicles in NSW therefore they have no right of way unless its a crossing or something. But as bugs said he should have seen me.
He did also say 'Im so sorry' multiple times at the scene - is that considered an admission of guilt?? I was careful not to say sorry ...
Thanks again for all your help guys!!
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Permalink Reply by Robbo on
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As a skater you are treated as a pedestrian with conditions. I say call their bluff and just see if they force the issue and try to take you to court. There is a good chance they will not because they expect most people to just pay. If you refuse to they then have to contemplate their chances of actually winning over just paying for it themselves. I would lay my money on they will hassle you with a couple letters and then just disappear
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by haggy on -
as Robbo said - "Call their bluff."
Robbo said:As a skater you are treated as a pedestrian with conditions. I say call their bluff and just see if they force the issue and try to take you to court. There is a good chance they will not because they expect most people to just pay. If you refuse to they then have to contemplate their chances of actually winning over just paying for it themselves. I would lay my money on they will hassle you with a couple letters and then just disappear
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Rob Mcwhinnie on -
ive just been following this thread and got me thinking, "is it in our best intrest to be a wheel toy? or is time the rules and regulations be changed? are we safer off being in the grey area of the law?, the other day i was remember the critical mass bike rides though sydney city in peak hour to gain rider awarness and shit, and how fun this would be, but also to push for some more skater freindly laws, before governments start pushing the other way, as seen in laguna beach,,,,
im not shore it will stay a grey area for long, as more skaters take to the hills maybe we should push for better laws before they do?
on the topic off the topic, what do u recon. up untill now our community hasnt been that obvious, but cops and councils have to be reconising us a growing force of fun loving criminals and are shore to start cracking down,
Robbo said:As a skater you are treated as a pedestrian with conditions. I say call their bluff and just see if they force the issue and try to take you to court. There is a good chance they will not because they expect most people to just pay. If you refuse to they then have to contemplate their chances of actually winning over just paying for it themselves. I would lay my money on they will hassle you with a couple letters and then just disappear
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Permalink Reply by Kam Kite on
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I ran into and dented a car in Bondi, he was u turning over double white lines. Everyone that witnessed it was sure he was in the wrong, if people are around talk to them. Remember you r the one that is splatted on the road play that card as much as you can.
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So... I was stressing out thinking I would have to pay this as yet undisclosed sum, then today I went to see a legal aid person and it turned out to be a local magistrate. stoked, I was expecting someone less good. Anyhow, she advised me that a breach of road rules does not constitute negligence. My riding a skateboard on the road did not automatically equal negligence just because it is illegal. So that is beside the point. And she suggested that if I was already IN the roundabout (as opposed to just on the side with right of way) then the dude had to give way. So that plus the fact he said he didnt see me suggest he was negligent. At most there is contributory negligence (we are both at fault). I went back to the scene and measured out the distances involved. I had travelled 15-17m in the roundabout and he had travelled just 1.5 -2m into it. SO I am writing a letter to his insurance company and they can suck it up and pay. Hopefully they are smart and stop hassling me!
Keep ya posted.
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Permalink Reply by Jogger on
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Adrian Alderson said:
DO U HAVE HOME CONTENTS INSURANCE? If u do, ur probably covered under a weird clause that most companies have. It covers damages caused by toys or rec vehicles stored at ur house. Just reiterating what what Adrain said, but it's 4 real. and EVERY SKATER SHOULD LOOK INTO THIS SHIT!If you have household insurance then you might be covered by the Public Liability side of that (I know I am as I checked with my insurer). I think he was in the wrong, but if you can get your insurer verses his insurer, you won't have to stress.
My 2 cents
Ado
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Permalink Reply by Phill C on
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The thing that I find weird is that your work paid workers comp even though they had no legal obligation to. Workers comp does cover employees on their way to work UNLESS they are doing something illegal ie. drink driving, riding a bike with no helmet or in this case riding a skateboard on a road. Did they not know the full story? and if they did, then obviously they did not feel you were breaking the law. This is all pretty unrelated to wether you have to pay the expenses or not but I just thought it was interesting.
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by Bugs on -
Phill C said:...Workers comp does cover employees on their way to work UNLESS they are doing something illegal ie. drink driving, riding a bike with no helmet or in this case riding a skateboard on a road...
I'm not an expert on workers comp, but I imagine that's only true where the illegality is responsible for the damage you suffer. For instance, if you're riding a bike without a helmet when a car runs into you and you break your leg, your lack of helmet was not responsible. Similarly if you were in possession of illegal drugs when the car ran into you - it's illegal, but did not cause the accident or the damage.
In J-mo's case it's a bit less obvious, but I'd say that his illegal skateboard riding did not cause the accident - the negligent driver did, and would have run into him even if he was on foot instead of on a board.
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