The Great Debate: Helmets: Aero Vs Moto "neck injuries"?
Neck injuries?
All I can say about this is that the argument that "you will get neck injuries" from wearing a motorcycle helmet is a negative answer to a more important safety issue, protecting your head. We should positively endorse the wearing of all helmets, not let small arguments put skaters off. Why do we have to make people feel bad over something that could save their lives and their faces? The main thing is a motorbike helmet is a full face helmet. A friggin solid one too,... designed for maximum aerodynamics and protection for ON ROAD crashes, up to and over 100+kph!! Doesn't that sound like the same sort of crash environment we are in when we speedboard? Much closer to what we do than doing dirt jumps or hang gliding/flying. :/
Sure you can spend 500 on a helmet and have a really lightweight lid, and also be so-so fashionable at the local sesh, but I feel there are trade offs with all three possibilities and all have their pros and cons-
Motorbike helmets,
Mountain Bike helmets and
Glider helmets
Motorbike helmets are heavier, but tougher. They have a visor which is really handy. They also could save your life. Second hand these will cost peanuts, but dont get one that is so old that the foam inside is hard.
Some of the sort of crashes you might expect in a motorbike accident involve hitting solid objects, being thrown, slamming onto tarmac, and getting hit from behind (which must be a serious whiplash issue).
In studies under these conditions (on-road motorbike accident) there were neck injuries in some cases, but the protection to the head statistics far out-weighed the neck issue. If the same accident occurred without a helmet (the one that caused neck injuries), it is highly probable that the same neck injuries would occur, however it is doubtful that the accident victim would have survived. If you get neck injuries from a fall, it may not just be the weight of the helmet that caused it, it might be the way you fell.
Maybe one day you will pull a muscle in your neck when you fall off your skateboard, but this depends on the kind of fall. In my opinion, it is better to have more protection for your head.
If some skater buys a helmet like this, he should not be discouraged. This is good protection.
If you are worried about your neck get a foam racing neck brace. Probably not such a stupid idea for MTB and aero users either.
Just be aware that you cant hear ambient skating noise as well in these.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 1 out of 3
MTB helmets seem to be a happier medium. Light and medium priced. Still mainly designed for MTB crashes which are mostly off road, (but still gnarly) and at speeds mostly under 60kph. Yeah MOTO X and MTB helmets have a different shape than ON ROAD motorbike helmets. Wouldn't you think that they have done studies on the kind of accidents both sports have, and tailor-made the helmet to provide protection under their respective conditions? Not really very aero,... but a MTB isn't a very aero thing either.
Downside to the MTB helmet is the lack of a visor. I have seen home made visors that work, and I have seen some that seem to restrict vision. Think to yourself, if you are moving at 60kph and a snake or lizard or even a stick is on the ground, do you want to see it before you hit it? Its hard enough to see through the shadows of the trees without taking away some more visual clarity. What about pot holes? Do you want to see them?? A DIY visor could be a bigger player in you having a crash, so make sure you take it into consideration.
Why not go for goggles? You might see better.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 2 out of 3
Glider helmets. Very expensive.
So what kind of impact would you expect one of these to protect you from? I imagine it can't really protect you from a full plummet from the sky. It must have some protection from tree branches, cliff faces and maybe being skewered by the aluminum tubes that make up your ultralight. I don't believe the shells of the Glider helmet are as solid as a motorbike helmet, or possibly even a MTB helmet. I may not be right, but we are starting to see more high speed crashes from people wearing these, and I am scared that the statistics arent looking good. If there is official data on the safety of these in the sort of accidents you guys are having in these Id like to see it. But I do know the riders that generally wear these are more seasoned, and may not fall off as much.
Would I feel protected if I wore an Icaro on a motorbike or scooter? Somehow I don't think so.
These helmets do look good though. I'm sure they protect you to some extent, but its a bit of a grey area huh?
Plus side is good hearing, good vision, and they look super cool.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 3 out of 3
What helmet you wear is your choice, just wear one.
The best choice is wearing a helmet.
Now I might be being a little bit harsh in my opinions, but Id like to discuss this issue with you guys because we do have a lot of people who own and wear glider helmets.
I agree they are cool and kind of "elite", but are they really suitable for our sport? Will a light weight helmet save you?
Do we hate on motorbike helmets to make us feel better about wearing an overpriced ineffective helmet? Shouldnt we encourage all helmets and look at head protection with no BS?
Please discuss.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Ching on -
I first started off with a motocross helmet. It's vision was fine and i think weighed around 1.3kg? It wasn't bad at all. The foam in it was thick and you had just enough vision you needed. Then I switched to a Bell Drop which i think is the best compromise between owning a motorcycle helmet and one of the hang-gliding helmets. It's vision was alot better than my previous motocross helmet, weighed a little under a kilo, the foam is only just a little thinner.
I've tried on a friend's motorcycle helmet (very similar to the one in the picture you posted up) and it was heavy (so much heavier than my motocross helmet I had) and vision was terrible. Yes, you may argue that this is the safest option but in terms of downhill skateboarding, having bad vision could put you at risk as well. Really, all I could see was what was directly straight in front of me. Really important to be able to see so much more than that.
Also have seen a charly no limit helmet. The foam in it is so thin, about the same as what you'd find in a half-shell. What really bothered me was the fact that the charly helmet weighed the same if not LIGHTER than my protec half shell. Wearing it made me feel like I was just putting on a hat it was that light. Vision on the other hand was AWESOME and I did look so much cooler in it.
I've heard many arguments for sacrificing safety over aerodynamics. One of them is, in a racing environment, you have haybales. closed roads etc. The chance of you slamming your head into a car or tree is pretty slim. Also, "I've been skating for years I know how to fall properly and not hit my head". Fair enough that's the risk many are willing to take. And really in racing, it has come to the point where "looks" plays a role in everything. Kids are getting custom NJKs, color-coordinating their shoes etc. So inevitably they're gonna want to have that cool helmet as well.
So hey if you're a pro, and you're gonna be racing and stuff then I guess taking the risk of using glider helmets is acceptable. But when it comes to open roads, I think everyone should at least consider something a step up in safety, especially if you're just starting out. Having fallen on my head about 5 times already I'm definitely one to advocate safety over looks and aerodynamics. I'm pretty happy with my Bell Drop, it's light enough not to give me a sore neck, excellent vision and a good in between in terms of safety. Don't think i'll be splurging on an Icaro or Charly anytime soon given my current skills and tendency to crash. -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Dani on -
My Aero helmet (Speed air) has a the same amount of protective foam through it as my MTB helmet did with the exception of the cheek areas. It is slightly heavier than the Icaro which is light as a feather and seems to have almost nil protection. That being said, I believe that the proof is in the pudding. 100's of skater wear these helmets and I have seen hundreds of crashes in them. People like Yates, Leeso and Jackbro would have seen a lot more. I don't believe that I have ever heard of anyone sustaining neck damage or nasty head injuries. The only people I have heard of recently who have suffered greatly from a head injury in a fall have either not been wearing a helmet (large majority of the time) and of course in Antons case, I believe he was wearing a motorbike helmet? (correct me if Im wrong on that on). It is probably a subject that you don't want to ''trial and error'' with your own head though.
I would say that the risk of neck injury may be greater while wearing helmets with a tail and I would not not buy another aero lid with a tail again.
Nice one Matty!! -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Owen on -
guys I agree helmets look cool, am getting very soon a predator helmet same shape as a charly with a round back and twice the foam I think that this is the best thing that we have seen moving forward is a dedicated helmet for DH where they have taken many great aspects of other styles of helmets and pouring them into a new shape, the one really bad thing about glider helmets is the fact that they have a point at the back, the reason moto helmets dont have these even the racing ones, is so the helmet doesn't stop the head from rolling with the body.
really looking forward to these helmets coming in will post pics and a review after they arrive. -
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Permalink Reply by Hop on
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My thoughts, they are not recommendations, just stuff I have seen along the way.
Motorcycle helmets are designed to protect you from your motorbike. You come off the wrong way you have a high chance of being crushed between two heavy objects. You are higher off the ground, so you spend some time in the air maintaining speed. Longboarder is closer to the road, usually impacts immediately the road, loses speed very quick due to the friction of road and body.
You have to consider how the brain is damaged. It is the impact of head, causing the brain to move. This is why people falling over backwards like Hookes, can die on impact.
Having a heavy helmet will increase your chances of having a sudden impact on your head. Look at the physics of the weight of a object travelling at speed. A heavy head is harder to hold up in a crash. Keeping your head off the ground is more important in saving your head, ie Daddow crash at Newtons.
A motorcycle helmet blocks audible sounds, because you are on a big noisy motorbike. Not being able to hear, will increase your chances of having a serious crash. Dont hear other traffic or other skaters.
Why dont cyclists wear motorbike helmets? They can travel as fast as a motorbike, they are the same height off the road, they commute in traffic with cars.
Newton's had a lot of crashes in 2009. Maybe more than any other race in the IGSA. As far as I know, head injuries were not an issue regarding choice of helmet.
Anton was not wearing a motorbike helmet, his injury was caused by the type fall, going backwards. You impact your head at the right spot on the back of your head, even at low speed, or no speed, the impact is mostly instant death.
I'm not against motorbike helmets. I think weight of helmet, visibility and audibility are as important features of a helmet for downhill.
Most decent motorbike helmets are more expensive than a paragliding helmet. They are usually twice the price. Who's buying a motorbike helmet for peanuts? That is asking for trouble. -
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Permalink Reply by matty leadfoot on
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All great responses.
Thanks guys, keep em coming. :] -
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Permalink Reply by Bowditch on
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from jacko on bow's account: My two cents, motorbike helmets are just no good... too heavy, not enough vision, not enough hearing... just straight up no good...
If you have the money, buy yourself a charly or an icaro, they are so comfy, and have lots of vision and hearing. In my experience, they hold up in a crash. I have seen many many crashes and seen many of these helmets destroyed, but never seen anyone sustain a serious head injury, or even a head injury at all... the way i see it, if you smash your head THAT hard it doesnt matter what helmet your wearing, your getting mega messed up. Thats the risk we take with this sport, sometimes unfortunate things happen...
However if you dont wanna throw down the dollars, go for a MTB helmet. They are light weight, offer good vision (i recommend the bell drop) and are nice and safe in term of protecting your noggin.
Ive been bombing down hills for a while, tried out many helmets in many different sorts of situations, seen many (and been in many) gnarly crashes and seen some pretty hectic stuff, but in my opinion, Motorbike helmets are no good, MTB and glider helmets are good... -
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Permalink Reply by Gilbert on
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I think the major fault in a motorbike helmet is not in its weight, but its lack of vision and not being able to hear much. I think those 2 factors are very important in our sport. I agree with hop that when we fall, our bodies impact the ground first and we scrub off a lot of speed during that process (even more if you're wearing leathers). But as far as consciously trying to keep our heads off the road during a fall, that might be a lot easier said than done. The forces involved during a fall I'd imagine would be far greater than what your muscles (especially your neck) can put up against and a majority of us surely can't do what daddow did at newtons.
With that, I personally think that a mtb helmet is the best option we currently have for dh skating. While a paragliding is light and provides great vision, I just find it hard to feel safe in it, which I would guess is why the predator helmets were produced because ppl just weren't assured by the safety of paragliding helmets. I also find it hard to drop that much money on a paragliding helmet, when something like the bell drop can be obtained at 1/3 the price. It also has as much peripheral vision as you need (can't see any part of the helmet using peripheral vision) and there's not much impairment in terms of hearing and is really light as well all things considered, plus more brain protecting foam! And I personally think it looks just as cool as an icaro or charly.
My two cents. Get whatever you can afford, as long as you have a brain bucket, you're all good. -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Adam on -
What type of place can you buy a bell drop? Do i just go to a moto shop and ask for a bell drop, or are they gunna look at me strange? At the moment i am just using a regular rebel sport skate helmet, but have not done any serious hills really? right now i'm doing the cow hunting thing then i will move on to a better helmet, but this discussion gives me the chance to get info.
Bloody great to see a good quality discussion.
Btw not sure what a glider helmet is but i want safety not cool. -
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Yeah Im lovin the well thought out answers here.
If you race, you have hay bales and no traffic.
Does the possibility of hitting a car change your mind? Hitting the back of a bus at 70+kph maybe? A head-on with a 4WD bull bar?
The only reason I bring this up, is we condemn the safest choice because we want to hear and see slightly more that the safest choice will allow us.
Best vision and hearing would come from no helmet. -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Dani on -
Certainly the best choice of hearing and comfort would be no helmet but I think, as far as buses and cars go a lot of people are taking that choice (principally). We are seeing more and more footage and photos of people riding hills with just a normal skid lid on which offers no protection to the jaw, cheeks or temples. Looking at the photo of the MTB helmet that has just been posted, if he were in a skid lid... He'd be missing his lower jaw right now. It also brings back memories of Phil's (Judge K) crash which is on ASRA a while back, of him falling face first when his foot touched his back wheel while braking. It left a nasty dent and mark on the front (chin) of his MTB helmet. Again, in a skid lid things could have been a lot worse.
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Permalink Reply by Isaac Naumann on
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wiggle.co.uk cheapest site. free 4 days shipping from the UK.
Adam said:What type of place can you buy a bell drop? Do i just go to a moto shop and ask for a bell drop, or are they gunna look at me strange? At the moment i am just using a regular rebel sport skate helmet, but have not done any serious hills really? right now i'm doing the cow hunting thing then i will move on to a better helmet, but this discussion gives me the chance to get info.
Bloody great to see a good quality discussion.
Btw not sure what a glider helmet is but i want safety not cool. -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Trav on -
personally not going to wear a big bulky helmet that will impare my judgement and be too solid for falls 99% of the time on the off chance i hit a car or bus and probably die anyway... you can think of many situations that could render all types of helmets useless. wear what you're comfortable in, but yeah glide helmets are the most proven helmet in DH skating thus far and i'm sure the predator will be the next step.
matty leadfoot said:Yeah Im lovin the well thought out answers here.
If you race, you have hay bales and no traffic.
Does the possibility of hitting a car change your mind? Hitting the back of a bus at 70+kph maybe? A head-on with a 4WD bull bar?
The only reason I bring this up, is we condemn the safest choice because we want to hear and see slightly more that the safest choice will allow us.
Best vision and hearing would come from no helmet. -
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