Confused with Qld police?
Ok so i was out skating today at buderim on a nice run and we only really had one driver well legal driver and that was Ben who makes the grom biz trucks. So i done one run with ben driving then we parked the car half way and were about to walk up the road from the time we had one run we found out the cops showed up because when ben dropped me off to do the run i guy saw us and dobbed us in, anyway the cops came one lady and a gentle man and they were pretty chilled they said they were worried for are safety and were saying about we can go to court now with the new laws, they also just said we shouldn't be doing it on this road because it's busy and she also said which shocked me "oh this road is way to busy and dangerous if you can find somewhere else to do it that would be fine" and we had leathers on with helmets in are hands thinking that was a bit weird and then she tells us about the guy who got caught up on the run and was on youtube blah blah blah and from then on they changed the law in Qld that classifies skateboards as vehicles and then when asked "so if we are traveling the speed limit and following normal vehicle road rules is it then alright to skate down this hill" and the reply from both was just "umm arrrr yeah,well it's more about your safety and the other people around" What the so in this case if, this information was true we are classified as a vehicle and can follow road rules can we then skate on roads with no hassle of police?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robbo on
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I believe that ruling was made by a Magistrate which are not able to make common law precedent as apposed to a Common Law Judge.
'Judges in a common law system are also empowered, and for the most part required, to make law guided by past precedent, or to choose to ignore past precedent as no longer applicable, based on a concept known as "stare decisis" ("to stand by what has been decided"), in cases where no statute or prior case clearly mandates a particular result, and in cases where past precedents, for some reason, no longer appear to provide firm guidance as to the current state of the law. For example, in a case of "first impression" which has never arisen in a publicly reported case in a state, a judge must choose which rule will apply, usually informed by decisions which have been made in similar cases in other jurisdictions and based on the public policies involved. Judges in civil law systems, in contrast, are strictly forbidden from "making law" and, as a general rule, are not bound by or even encouraged to refer to precedents established in prior similar cases.'
The case you are referring to was held in the local court as it was simply a minor traffic matter and as I understand holds no precedent. Magistrates in the local court are able to issue rulings that sentence without referring to precedent as in a shoplifter being required to sit outside a shopping centre with a sign around his neck saying "I am a shoplifter" and other ridiculous rulings.
So in answer to your question, the case creates no legal precedent. A magistrate issues rulings somewhat based on the balance of probabilities similar to a civil law judge who is also unable to create precedent. From my understanding legal precedent mostly begins at the supreme court level or with significant criminal cases heard by a judge withing the local court and not by a magistrate.
the problem with coppers is they often have very little understanding of the law, they just issue tickets and somebody further up e.g. police prosecutor, judge, Attorney general - decide if its lawful or not.
the coppers just go back to eating donuts until the next bin laden skater comes along
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Permalink Reply by pete on
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Jo. The last time we hit that road, and we were only using to get speed into that corner for sliding, the policeman that stopped us said in no uncertain terms that we could not ride the road at all because of the dividing line(what we are used to) but could ride on the side road which had no dividing line. It seems, as always we are going to get whatever the particular policeperson is feeling based on what type of day he has had. Which I suppose is better than just getting fined every single time - sounds like they were OK police.
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by Bugs on -
As Robbo said, cops often don't know the law. More surprising is that magistrates often don't know the law.
The only roads you can legally skate on must have both of the following features:
a) no dividing line
b) a speed limit of 50km/h or less
It's a small fine for breaking this law - approx $50.
The Australian Road Rules are here: http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/ARR_February_2009_final.pdf
See page 374 of the rules above - skateboards are explicitly defined as "wheeled recreational devices". They are NOT vehicles, despite what one Queensland magistrate and a few cops say.
And then see Division 2, which starts at page 234. It sets out all the rules for "wheeled recreational devices".
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Permalink Reply by Joe on
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Yes indeed i do see your point there Because my mate did get a fine at a place in qld for skating on a road with a dividing line and a speed limit over 50 and i got a caution because i was only 15. the funny thing was that i lady dobbed us in and my mate got a fine and the cop never even us do it. The same thing happen yesterday and a man dobbed us in and said he seen us do it but nothing from the cops not even a mention about skating on a road with a dividing line, so could it be possible that QLD have actually changed the law for not being classed as a recreational wheeled vehicle or is it just Chinese whispers.
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60km/h in QLD
Division 2 Rules for persons travelling in or on
wheeled recreational devices and
wheeled toys
Section 240 - Wheeled recreational devices and toys not to be used on
certain roads
(1) A person must not travel in or on a wheeled recreational
device or wheeled toy on—
(a) a road with a dividing line or median strip; or
(b) a road on which the speed limit is more than 60km/h; or
(c) a one-way road with more than 1 marked lane.
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Fitz on -
It's great to have knoweldge of the road rules but ultimately this grey area in the legal system works in our favour.
What we don't want is to flaunt our knowledge by skating where it's going to attract adverse attention with the public or authorities.
Once they discover the grey areas then there will be attention on the topic to revise these laws which could prohibit speedboarding entirely.
Basicly we still need to keep it underground for outlaw runs without being noticed in the public eye. Once we get authority to conduct competitions and ride days we can really drive it home to the general public how exciting and safe it can be.
Try sticking to quiter roads out of town where there is minimal traffic and even less houses and residents. It's the residents who have the most power when it comes to complaining because the fat cat poli's want their vote at the next election.
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Hahah true Judgek yer well the cops that stopped us just yesterday were actually the nicest cops i have ever come across they were asking us about the sport,how fast do we go what protection do we use if we have cars behind us while going down and we were pretty open to these two police persons because they never threatened us once with fines only that they have heard of people going to court for skating, i think that was the Matt Ryan case, and that they reckoned the laws have changed. Never even told us that we couldn't skate on a road with lines just said go do it some where with less traffic, once she asked where else have you been today that was the only thing i held back hahah just said ohh don't even know the names lol.
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ASRA AdminPermalink Reply by Bugs on -
Robbo said:60km/h in QLD
You're right; the Qld version of the rules is here (section 240, page 234): http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR99.pdf. I thought it was the same throughout Australia, but the Queenslanders have it much better than us in NSW.
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Bugs said:
Maybe the QLD's don't have 50 zones at all.Robbo said:60km/h in QLD
You're right; the Qld version of the rules is here (section 240, page 234): http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR99.pdf. I thought it was the same throughout Australia, but the Queenslanders have it much better than us in NSW.
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Permalink Reply by Ben on
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we have some weird ones here...i'll try and dig it up...
we have:
1. the wheeled contrivance act
2. the wheeled recreations device laws
3. tasmanian skate laws
from memory, if you ask them to specify which you are being charged with (here) penalties and actions are different.
example:
wheeled contrivance has a 2 shilling fine! but no confiscation and no law about lines..its about speed and grade of road.
wheeled recreations law talks about lines and speed zones but not grade/confiscation or fines.
*headbutts wall* i'll try and find the pages to our "odd..." laws....
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