ASRA - Australian Skateboard Racing Association

Car / skateboard crash - driver claiming damages (NSW)

Hi!
There seems to be a decent knowledge base on the forums about skateboarding and the law, so I thought Id ask a question that is worrying me.

I was riding my longboard to work one day and had an accident with a car. I was coming down a hill, towards a roundabout. I left space to run it out if needed, nothing was coming on the right, and the cars on the left were slowing. It looked like they were going to give way (as they should do for a vehicle or rider in my position) so I kept heading through. Turns out the guy hadnt even seen me til I was in the process of denting his bonnet. I was mildly injured but my employer insisted workcover would cover my injury treatment since I was on the way to work. So I kind of forgot about it until I get a claim against me in the mail 2 months later, for damages to his car.

If I was considered a vehicle or a rider, then I would have had right of way in the situation and the guy who hit me would be in trouble. However if I was a pedestrian, he would also be in trouble supposedly because you have to give way to pedestrians if there is risk of collision. The senior constable at the local copshop didnt know whether I was liable on a skateboard, he could only tell me with certainty that it is illegal to skate on the road. And yes unfortunately the road did have a dividing line (50km/hr speed limit).

Can anyone tell me thei thoughts on liability in this situation. My car is insured and I have business insurance (Public Liability) however both appear to have clauses that seem to exclude this situation (ie car insurance only covers liability by my vehicle or 'a substitute motor vehicle' which obviously doesnt include a skateboard. And the business insurance suggests liability is not covered when participating in sports.) I am seeking legal aid, and feeling pretty worried.

Any help would be appreciated!

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I don't think they can have an affect on your credit rating until a judgement against you is made in a court of law. Anything less than say $1500 isn't worth going to court over. I wouldn't offer them anything if you are not responsible.


 

 

Yes you might be right about that, I should stop to-ing and fro-ing.until i see my credit report. But i was under the impression any debts are on there if you dont pay/respond after 60-90 days. I moved houses a few months after it happened and so im sure there were a few unopened letters.



Geoff Carroll - Daddy Cool said:

I don't think they can have an affect on your credit rating until a judgement against you is made in a court of law. Anything less than say $1500 isn't worth going to court over. I wouldn't offer them anything if you are not responsible.


 

 

refer to my previous email regarding accidents on roundabouts. seriously, tell them that they are wasting your time. Your are not at fault and that they had better start legal action against you or fuck off and not to bother you again or you'll start your own proceedings against them for harrasment!
**LIKE**

Geoff Carroll - Daddy Cool said:
refer to my previous email regarding accidents on roundabouts. seriously, tell them that they are wasting your time. Your are not at fault and that they had better start legal action against you or fuck off and not to bother you again or you'll start your own proceedings against them for harrasment!
Don't send that. Well not the second paragraph at least

There is no reason to offer settlement if you are disputing liability.

Also, it is very unlikely that your credit rating will have been marked at this point.



J-mo said:

I am considering sending them this:

 

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to inform you that I continue to strongly dispute liability in the  incident that occured on _ / _ / 2010.


However, it may be in your interests to offer a further reduced lump sum payment as a full and final settlement of all monies owed, along with  an agreement to remove ALL credit history records relating to the initial incident.

Regards,

 

Is this smart? I think it is worth it if they agree. Its pretty likely I have it on my record by now. And I would love to be able to forget about the matter.

ok so I send them another denial along the lines of

 

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to inform you that I continue to strongly dispute liability in the  incident that occured on _ / _ / 2010

Unless you intend to commence legal proceedings against me to prove liability, I request that you cease and desist all communications at once.

 

Would that provoke them into action or shut them up? It wouldnt stop them selling the case on to someone else either I guess.

 

I'm still thinking that one weeks wage is a small price to pay for future peace of mind. Thats how the industry makes money I guess. 

 

Thanks again.

That one is better.

I'd probably have the first paragraph, then have;

"Please provide evidence to support you argument that I have been negligent. If you cannot, advise in writing that you will be closing your file and then discontinue all communication."

Then maybe write something about why the other bloke has been negligent I.e. The fact that you were already in the roundabout and came from his right etc etc

Also, if I were you I would be dealing directly with the insurer not the debt collector
good idea, but I figure dealing with the debt collector might convolute the process a bit and make everything less efficient for them. Also I dont want to give them any more info to twist around on the incident, they already have enough info. Will act when i see my credit report...

The key thing with writing letters to debt collectors and lawyers is not to give them any additional information that they can use against you.

Never mention your credit rating, if you do then they know that is your weakness and they will focus their attention there. Never tell them your version of events in writing.

Always assume you are in a position of strength. From their point of view, this could be a dead issue, but for the cost of a few stamps and a debt collector it is worth a lucky shot.

If you have to send them something, the last edited letter is best. Basically shit or get off the pot. Take me to court or go away. Nothing more. Less you say the better.

 

The most important thing here is to get more legal advice. You mentioned earlier in the thread you had some legal aid, and you had a magistrate give some advice? You need to follow that up, give them an update on the situation to find out your options. This is the purpose of legal aid, when big companies bullying consumers.

This is not advice, but it sounds like the demand is bogus. They are trying to cover some costs and scare you into paying. I think their next step is to get a judgement against you, but you'll get plenty of warning. They dont really want to go to court, you with legal aid, the judge will rip into them for wasting courts time, plus they will probably find against the insurance company. They know that.

 

Get some pieces of loose paper, and write down everything that has happened. Use this thread. Then buy an exercise book from the news agency, plain nothing fancy. Write everything down, with dates. Everyone you have spoken to, everyone that has been in contact, dates you have received letters, all in order, in the book, starting from the date of the accident. This is your reference and is the one thing that works in your favour legally. When ever a lawyer asks you about something, you can refer to your book, give the right information. You look credible, and will be to your advantage in court when you have reference and everyone is using their memory. Plus both sides will use it as information.

 

Lawyers and debt agencies hate paperwork. Debt collector knocks on your door, you ask them to wait there, you get your book, and then you write down in front of them the date, time, ask them their name, write it in, ask them their position in the company, who their boss is, their address, phone number, what is their business knocking at your door. Curiosity will get the better of them, they always ask ( or they go tell their boss), why are you doing this? You say, I have been advised to do this, we need names of everyone involved. Say no more, they want to know who is advising you, dont say anything, you can not say. They never like that, sounds like someone bigger than them is involved, make em sweat a bit. Always good to drop in some info like, did you know I had to have professional rehabilitation involved in this accident? (limping a bit helps). You say: I should not have said that, I can not say anymore.

You can not argue with debt collectors, they don't make decisions, they are purely a way of collecting money. Never argue with them, but always get their names.

Another good one is innocently asking if their company address is also their legal registered address for serving legal papers too?

 

If you want to fight back then get online and find where GIO is socially. Facebook, Twitter, also search GIO sux etc and find people that have started complaint campaigns. Start making waves. You can start your own facebook group, like GIO hates skateboarders, it will get all the skaters involved. 

Once you hit 100 people, send a letter, written to the CEO of GIO (google to find his name and address). Find their annual report and get the names of all the board directors, and send them all a letter individually to company head office, dont send them all at once, space out sending each letter by a day or two. Then write to marketing manager. Pointing out the facebook group, and your not going to stop until GIO ceases and desists their harassment.  State you are not in the wrong, a magistrate through Legal aid said GIO client is in the wrong and GIO are using bullying tactics.

The point of the letters to CEO and directors is to tell them they are ruining your life over $1000, and ask them why they are doing it? Ask them lots of moral issues, do you have a son? Would you want GIO treating your son like this? etc etc

Letter to marketing manager is to shit stir. They like to stop stuff before it goes viral and will email everyone saying, we spend $200,000 a month on advertising, and for $1000 this kid could cost us millions.

Letter should be like friendly and helpful, Hi. I'm X, GIO is chasing me for $1000, for no reason, so because of this harassment, I'm telling the world. Check out my facebook page, I'm writing letters to all the newspapers and TV shows next month after I hit 10000 likes. My friend works at Channel Seven, and thinks he can get me on Sunrise. I'm doing media at uni, and one of my lecturers thinks this will be a good experience, he is going to help me out. Everyone is being so helpful except GIO, I suppose you guys really need the $1000.

 

Another great facebook group would be Who Will Cancel Their GIO Insurance Because Of This. GIO puts a value on every insurance policy, if you get people signing up to cancel policies, then it has a real value to them. You can even get people to post up photos of their torn up policy etc.      

 

 

Love it Hop!
wow! thanks for all your ideas Hop!
Wow.... remind me never to fuck with you Hop!

Hop said:

The key thing with writing letters to debt collectors and lawyers is not to give them any additional information that they can use against you.

Never mention your credit rating, if you do then they know that is your weakness and they will focus their attention there. Never tell them your version of events in writing.

Always assume you are in a position of strength. From their point of view, this could be a dead issue, but for the cost of a few stamps and a debt collector it is worth a lucky shot.

If you have to send them something, the last edited letter is best. Basically shit or get off the pot. Take me to court or go away. Nothing more. Less you say the better.

 

The most important thing here is to get more legal advice. You mentioned earlier in the thread you had some legal aid, and you had a magistrate give some advice? You need to follow that up, give them an update on the situation to find out your options. This is the purpose of legal aid, when big companies bullying consumers.

This is not advice, but it sounds like the demand is bogus. They are trying to cover some costs and scare you into paying. I think their next step is to get a judgement against you, but you'll get plenty of warning. They dont really want to go to court, you with legal aid, the judge will rip into them for wasting courts time, plus they will probably find against the insurance company. They know that.

 

Get some pieces of loose paper, and write down everything that has happened. Use this thread. Then buy an exercise book from the news agency, plain nothing fancy. Write everything down, with dates. Everyone you have spoken to, everyone that has been in contact, dates you have received letters, all in order, in the book, starting from the date of the accident. This is your reference and is the one thing that works in your favour legally. When ever a lawyer asks you about something, you can refer to your book, give the right information. You look credible, and will be to your advantage in court when you have reference and everyone is using their memory. Plus both sides will use it as information.

 

Lawyers and debt agencies hate paperwork. Debt collector knocks on your door, you ask them to wait there, you get your book, and then you write down in front of them the date, time, ask them their name, write it in, ask them their position in the company, who their boss is, their address, phone number, what is their business knocking at your door. Curiosity will get the better of them, they always ask ( or they go tell their boss), why are you doing this? You say, I have been advised to do this, we need names of everyone involved. Say no more, they want to know who is advising you, dont say anything, you can not say. They never like that, sounds like someone bigger than them is involved, make em sweat a bit. Always good to drop in some info like, did you know I had to have professional rehabilitation involved in this accident? (limping a bit helps). You say: I should not have said that, I can not say anymore.

You can not argue with debt collectors, they don't make decisions, they are purely a way of collecting money. Never argue with them, but always get their names.

Another good one is innocently asking if their company address is also their legal registered address for serving legal papers too?

 

If you want to fight back then get online and find where GIO is socially. Facebook, Twitter, also search GIO sux etc and find people that have started complaint campaigns. Start making waves. You can start your own facebook group, like GIO hates skateboarders, it will get all the skaters involved. 

Once you hit 100 people, send a letter, written to the CEO of GIO (google to find his name and address). Find their annual report and get the names of all the board directors, and send them all a letter individually to company head office, dont send them all at once, space out sending each letter by a day or two. Then write to marketing manager. Pointing out the facebook group, and your not going to stop until GIO ceases and desists their harassment.  State you are not in the wrong, a magistrate through Legal aid said GIO client is in the wrong and GIO are using bullying tactics.

The point of the letters to CEO and directors is to tell them they are ruining your life over $1000, and ask them why they are doing it? Ask them lots of moral issues, do you have a son? Would you want GIO treating your son like this? etc etc

Letter to marketing manager is to shit stir. They like to stop stuff before it goes viral and will email everyone saying, we spend $200,000 a month on advertising, and for $1000 this kid could cost us millions.

Letter should be like friendly and helpful, Hi. I'm X, GIO is chasing me for $1000, for no reason, so because of this harassment, I'm telling the world. Check out my facebook page, I'm writing letters to all the newspapers and TV shows next month after I hit 10000 likes. My friend works at Channel Seven, and thinks he can get me on Sunrise. I'm doing media at uni, and one of my lecturers thinks this will be a good experience, he is going to help me out. Everyone is being so helpful except GIO, I suppose you guys really need the $1000.

 

Another great facebook group would be Who Will Cancel Their GIO Insurance Because Of This. GIO puts a value on every insurance policy, if you get people signing up to cancel policies, then it has a real value to them. You can even get people to post up photos of their torn up policy etc.      

 

 

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