Announcement: ASRA Downhill Rankings

ASRA Admin Comment by Bugs on February 7, 2011 at 9:02

I think if you qualify 35th and are excluded from the finals, you would still end up with a final placing of 35th. You were there, you raced (the qualifiers at least), and you came 35th.

The second question is something I hadn't considered, so it's good that it's come up now before anybody runs an invite-only event.

An invite-only event could be used to exclude your main competitors and pump up you and your friends rankings. That's clearly unfair.

But there are circumstances where an invite-only event might make sense, for example where there is only room for 16 riders and the event organiser wants the best 16, they might invite only them.

This is virtually the same as the priority registration system used at IGSA races, and is fair as long as the invitees (or priority list) are based on the rankings themselves. Even then it might be reasonable to reserve a couple of spaces for "wildcards", such as a rider returning from injury, or a visiting international.

.........

Ah, I see Robbo and Haggy have beaten me to this, and are thinking along the same lines as me.

Premium Member Comment by Trav on February 7, 2011 at 9:13

i guess its whats considered being part of the race for it to count as overal position, i was thinking qualifying as the process to be included in the race, rather than thinking of the 32 man as the finals.

the private event in question would include all top riders across the country (not just the rankings), just political reasons for it to be private. how about the private event to include ASRA then you can make a call to include it or not?

Comment by riffraff on February 7, 2011 at 9:22

ASRA points are not mine to give away, but they are the icing on my cake! as has been the case with IGSA and Newtons those of us that didn't qualify still attained points. I would hope that anyone riding in my event will receive points, even if based on qualifying. Reward the worthy , if you catch my drift.

ASRA Admin Comment by Bugs on February 7, 2011 at 9:45

Sounds interesting Trav.

Because it's very early days for the rankings it's asking a bit much to use them as the sole determinant of an invite list or priority registration list.

At this stage if you're making a good faith effort to include only the best riders I think the race should be included. Best to discuss it with myself, Robbo or Haggy as well.

One of the criteria for including an event in the rankings was to create an event page for it on this site at least a month before the race - I hope you can still do that despite the "private" nature of the event.

Riff, we all seem to be in agreement on this - people who don't make it past the qualifiers should still get points.

Premium Member Comment by Phil Bartlett on February 7, 2011 at 11:14

this would end up enlarging the gap between the top riders and the guys that were not invited, I thought the idea of this series was that anyone who made the effort to get to the races could win. 

 

this would end up bolstering the points of the guys who really, could be handicaped instead if you wanted it to be a close competition.

 

any invite only race should not be included in my opinion.

ASRA Admin Comment by Bugs on February 7, 2011 at 12:46

Phil, a lot of sports tournaments work on an invitational basis, or are heavily biased to allowing entry for "seeds" at the expense of ordinary Joes. The IGSA's priority registration system works like this - it ensures the top riders can enter an event at the expense of everybody else's chances of entering that event.

If there were a limited number of events included in the rankings, then "invitationals" would enlarge the gap between the top riders and everybody else, but that's not the case here. The number of events is unlimited - there is nothing to stop anybody from putting on their own event. Somebody could create a rival event for the same day as an invitational, and that rival event might have more riders and be worth more points!

This makes it unlikely that invitationals will ever become numerous enough to skew the rankings.

Comment by Sakamoto on February 7, 2011 at 13:08

In turn, the "rival event" may be the invitational with more riders invited and given more points!?

Priority listing is differant to "invitational" events, and priority listings are setup to keep the rankings rolling as opposed to being bogged down in lower ranked "numbers".

Realistically, Australia's gravity scene isn't big enough for a "seeding" scenario, and in turn it's small enough for an "invitational" event/s to effect the rankings.

Maybe, at this stage of the sports growth, on a serious/ability based rider scene, it would be fairer to stage events with no bias in any direction, allow guys to get to the events that they can afford to get to and want to race in, and see how the first 12 to 24 months go?

Premium Member Comment by Trav on February 7, 2011 at 13:22

Sakamoto, we had 79 skaters register for a small 1 day pump station event (95% local riders), not sure how you don't foresee the need for seeding preference in future races. I think it will be a very real scenario in a couple of months time.

Like Bugs said, this system was set up to encourage people to organise races

Comment by Sakamoto on February 7, 2011 at 13:51

Fair comment Trav, based on total numbers, which included the juniors who attended.

There is a large number of riders in Australia, granted, but a far greater portion of that is the "grom factor", young people who are still learning and inexperienced, and need nurturing. The number of experienced riders, who would be able to race at a serious, hardcore level is alot smaller, yet these are the riders who would benefit the most from the ranking system with regards to gaining meaningful sponsorship to help them race.

To include the younger, inexperienced crew in the overall concept is a little unfair to the senior riders, so maybe now is the time to setup a structured juniors1 & 2 division, the same as the IGSA Rulebook, and nurture the young crew to get them ready for hard, clean, safe racing. Lets face it, there are some excellent Juniors in Australia, but nurturing is still required by the seniors and those responsible for growing the sport, regardless of discipline.

If this was done, the ranking system could be split to incorporate everyone, without it being detrimental to anyone.

Premium Member Comment by Phil Bartlett on February 7, 2011 at 14:10

bugs, I know I sound like a nit picking dick, but, this is the place to nut out the details. you have to be very careful when creating governing rules, and take all possible scenarios into consideration, so all I am hoping to do is highlight another scenario. 

If a race did not have any of the top racers at it, I got the impression from what was said earlier was that it wouldn't be included. and why would the top competitors attend the small invitational when they could go to the rival event, smash the large field that was missing the top competitors and pull more points than the other guys at the invitational?

 

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