Free Floating Axles
I am curious why nobody is using free floating axles in Downhill skateboard? apart from the price if they were light enough surely they would be of some benefit. Above 80k's you can hear the axles kick in and start spinning surely some of you are hitting those speeds. Also there are now guys producing lighter weight models. Has anyone ever tried them stand up and what were the results
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Replies to This Discussion
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Owen on -
just tried googleing them nothing came up.
if they are a skate truck then I would like to have a look at them, the problems that I see are that they would need to be incased so that when you unload one side they don't fall apart, also when taking them apart great care would be required to get them out with out them falling apart, it all adds up to much hassle, for no great performance gain as the only time they start working is when they are taking an axial (side) load and the forces that are being represented when we slide or turn isn't great enough that we need to over complicate truck setups to get around it.
give it a shot and tell me how it turns out, I'm sure there are allot of things that haven't been tried and I'm sure there are allot of advancements that are still to be made in our sport, some of which I hope to make myself.
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by leeso on -
besides the fact you cant just grab a tool and change wheels since the axle obviously spins you need a scew driver to from the other side to hold it...and from the guys ive seen doing it,,,it looks like a pain in the ass..
plus the extra time it takes, somtimes a quick wheel change is needed
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Jacko on -
the best riders in the world dont need that stuff to win
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Permalink Reply by Phill C on
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Your right it can be a pain but if you have a tube spanner a screw driver fits through the middle, meaning you just hold the screwdriver and turn the tube spanner around it. Then you also only need to undo one side, & pull the whole axle out & do both wheels at once.
At the moment the best riders don't need that stuff to win, but as things advance the riders that are trying different things for themselves and not just becoming complacent will be the ones that start winning. There may be no advantage in free floating axles or thrust bearings at all, afterall you just have to break one second too long and that undoes any advantage anyway. I just was curious if anyone has actually tried them as appossed to forming an opinion without actually using them.
leeso said:besides the fact you cant just grab a tool and change wheels since the axle obviously spins you need a scew driver to from the other side to hold it...and from the guys ive seen doing it,,,it looks like a pain in the ass..
plus the extra time it takes, somtimes a quick wheel change is needed
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by sidecar nic on -
@Phil, I reckon it might be a worthwhile idea to get a special camera mount and film your axles on a run (maybe even in slo-mo). That way you'd have an exact idea of what they're doing. Im guessing they'd spin more under hard cornering than in a straight line.
@Owen, any chance of a lean steer system with some level of ackerman steering? I'll help you test 'em :)
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Permalink Reply by Duff on
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Floating axles have their pros and cons but i think what Phill is saying is, what if OTHER manufacturers started offering this design instead of just Randal? What if you could get Kooky's, Kahas, Aera's ect. with floating axles? Would you benefit from the performance of a precision truck with the extra momentum of a spinning axle, or would the extra weight cancel out the performance gain?
You only have to look back at the X and Gravity Games period to see nearly EVERYONE was riding the Randal standup floating axle trucks, the type with one bearing either side. Never see anyone ride them now but look at the range there is to choose from these days it's huge, and precisions are all the rage.
Personally i think it's only a matter of time before the conventional skate truck as we know it is replaced by something new, surely in 50 years time we won't be riding 100 year old technology! Will we?
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Owen on -
as far as the ackerman steering, skate boards, luges etc already pretty much use something similar as the axels are already inline, and I believe that the stocker system is based off it.
the main pro of a floating axel is that if one of your bearings seize then your axel will spin for it.
and as far as not riding 100 year old technology, I feel that most skaters will still be riding the same style of trucks, look at cars, wishbone suspension has been around since 1935. what is more likely is that the concept will evolve with time.
skate trucks are so damn simple
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Permalink Reply by nige on
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Isn't Ackerman When the inside wheel turns (steers) more than the outside wheel.But that is of track anyway... surely the main disadvantage whith floating axles is weight.If they where lighter you may find alot more people using them.It stands to reason they have to roll better .you can effectively halve the bearing speeds and or corner loadings ???
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Trav on -
Phil, an easier way to answer your question is we'll swap trucks halfway through a session and we'll find out the difference.. i've also been curious about trying the floating axle
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Fitz on -
Thrust bearings are a great idea (if you can fit them on the axle) when combine with regular skate bearings, which are deep groove spec anyway. Deep groove spec provide enough side load support. Angular contact generate higher friction reducing freespin and top speed ability because of more surface contact on the ball.
Back to Phil's topic,
I reckon it's little more like trends which govern why truck makers stick with proven good ole fashion designs, No-one is prepared to take the risk of a big financial outlay on an idea which has no guaranteed benefit.
Most companies would prefer to take a proven design and spend the money on marketing and hyping the crap out of it, utilizing rider sponsorship on riders who are already winning without use of the new product.
The other major reason is that floating axles come into their own at speeds much higher than most standup guys are capable of. ie 100km/h+ This is more in the street luge territory because of a far superior tuck/aero advantage.
At speeds below 100 there is only the slightest gain from a floater which might be blown if you take a bad line through a corner or have your back knee poke out and ruin your tuck on a straight.
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Fitz on -
I forgot to mention,
Regarding floater hangers being heavy. I looked into doing hangers with micro bearings just to support the axle. Ceramic Minimisers are diameter 16mm and wiegh almost nothing compared to regular steel 608's. The smaller diameter would help keep the hanger size down making them more aero aswell. Randal floaters have that big bulge to house regular 608's.
You'd still need 608's in the wheel to take side loads.
The other issue is you can't crank down floater axle nuts without binding up the bearings. There's a major flaw with the spacer/stack assembly.
Wow! I haven't crapped on about bearings in ages. Cop that!
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well fitz i'll test em for you if you ever make them Ha Ha.... I think there are so many possibilities with a floater system when you consider that there has only ever been one or two designs utilizing a floating axle.
I also think you are right when you say that truck companies tend to go with trends and just market the crap out of them.
You can only paint a truck so many different colours before people will realise their the same truck!
It'd be interesting to see what you had planned fitz!
Fitz said:I forgot to mention,
Regarding floater hangers being heavy. I looked into doing hangers with micro bearings just to support the axle. Ceramic Minimisers are diameter 16mm and wiegh almost nothing compared to regular steel 608's. The smaller diameter would help keep the hanger size down making them more aero aswell. Randal floaters have that big bulge to house regular 608's.
You'd still need 608's in the wheel to take side loads.
The other issue is you can't crank down floater axle nuts without binding up the bearings. There's a major flaw with the spacer/stack assembly.
Wow! I haven't crapped on about bearings in ages. Cop that!
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