The Great Debate: Helmets: Aero Vs Moto "neck injuries"?
Neck injuries?
All I can say about this is that the argument that "you will get neck injuries" from wearing a motorcycle helmet is a negative answer to a more important safety issue, protecting your head. We should positively endorse the wearing of all helmets, not let small arguments put skaters off. Why do we have to make people feel bad over something that could save their lives and their faces? The main thing is a motorbike helmet is a full face helmet. A friggin solid one too,... designed for maximum aerodynamics and protection for ON ROAD crashes, up to and over 100+kph!! Doesn't that sound like the same sort of crash environment we are in when we speedboard? Much closer to what we do than doing dirt jumps or hang gliding/flying. :/
Sure you can spend 500 on a helmet and have a really lightweight lid, and also be so-so fashionable at the local sesh, but I feel there are trade offs with all three possibilities and all have their pros and cons-
Motorbike helmets,
Mountain Bike helmets and
Glider helmets
Motorbike helmets are heavier, but tougher. They have a visor which is really handy. They also could save your life. Second hand these will cost peanuts, but dont get one that is so old that the foam inside is hard.
Some of the sort of crashes you might expect in a motorbike accident involve hitting solid objects, being thrown, slamming onto tarmac, and getting hit from behind (which must be a serious whiplash issue).
In studies under these conditions (on-road motorbike accident) there were neck injuries in some cases, but the protection to the head statistics far out-weighed the neck issue. If the same accident occurred without a helmet (the one that caused neck injuries), it is highly probable that the same neck injuries would occur, however it is doubtful that the accident victim would have survived. If you get neck injuries from a fall, it may not just be the weight of the helmet that caused it, it might be the way you fell.
Maybe one day you will pull a muscle in your neck when you fall off your skateboard, but this depends on the kind of fall. In my opinion, it is better to have more protection for your head.
If some skater buys a helmet like this, he should not be discouraged. This is good protection.
If you are worried about your neck get a foam racing neck brace. Probably not such a stupid idea for MTB and aero users either.
Just be aware that you cant hear ambient skating noise as well in these.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 1 out of 3
MTB helmets seem to be a happier medium. Light and medium priced. Still mainly designed for MTB crashes which are mostly off road, (but still gnarly) and at speeds mostly under 60kph. Yeah MOTO X and MTB helmets have a different shape than ON ROAD motorbike helmets. Wouldn't you think that they have done studies on the kind of accidents both sports have, and tailor-made the helmet to provide protection under their respective conditions? Not really very aero,... but a MTB isn't a very aero thing either.
Downside to the MTB helmet is the lack of a visor. I have seen home made visors that work, and I have seen some that seem to restrict vision. Think to yourself, if you are moving at 60kph and a snake or lizard or even a stick is on the ground, do you want to see it before you hit it? Its hard enough to see through the shadows of the trees without taking away some more visual clarity. What about pot holes? Do you want to see them?? A DIY visor could be a bigger player in you having a crash, so make sure you take it into consideration.
Why not go for goggles? You might see better.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 2 out of 3
Glider helmets. Very expensive.
So what kind of impact would you expect one of these to protect you from? I imagine it can't really protect you from a full plummet from the sky. It must have some protection from tree branches, cliff faces and maybe being skewered by the aluminum tubes that make up your ultralight. I don't believe the shells of the Glider helmet are as solid as a motorbike helmet, or possibly even a MTB helmet. I may not be right, but we are starting to see more high speed crashes from people wearing these, and I am scared that the statistics arent looking good. If there is official data on the safety of these in the sort of accidents you guys are having in these Id like to see it. But I do know the riders that generally wear these are more seasoned, and may not fall off as much.
Would I feel protected if I wore an Icaro on a motorbike or scooter? Somehow I don't think so.
These helmets do look good though. I'm sure they protect you to some extent, but its a bit of a grey area huh?
Plus side is good hearing, good vision, and they look super cool.
Speedboarding Style Factor : 3 out of 3
What helmet you wear is your choice, just wear one.
The best choice is wearing a helmet.
Now I might be being a little bit harsh in my opinions, but Id like to discuss this issue with you guys because we do have a lot of people who own and wear glider helmets.
I agree they are cool and kind of "elite", but are they really suitable for our sport? Will a light weight helmet save you?
Do we hate on motorbike helmets to make us feel better about wearing an overpriced ineffective helmet? Shouldnt we encourage all helmets and look at head protection with no BS?
Please discuss.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matty leadfoot on
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I have this agenda because I ABSOLUTELY VALUE everyone here at ASRA.
I would hate to see anything happen to anyone including Jacko, and I would also hate it if someone gave advice that possibly led to someones death.
I dont think that the argument "oh well if you hit a car youre fvcked" is good enough.
Come on guys,.... try and stay alive out there will ya!! -
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Permalink Reply by Robbo on
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Phil Australian standards provide no standard for skateboard helmets. In the last 12months within ASRA we have looked very closely at negotiating helmet standards with The Australian Standards Board and believe me this is not an easy process. I'm not sure what comment you are referring to with regard to the HopShop thread.
Matt the Predator is made to a watersports rating by a company that makes helmets for rafting. The rating is a European watersports rating CE EN 1385. A lot of helmets are used in various sports that have ratings for other sports, this is because like financial ratings, all helmet ratings are created by for-profit ratings companies that will not create a rating for your sport unless you can sell 100,000 units with their rating on it. They make their profit by the commission they receive from each helmet that is sold with their sticker. Sometimes you can piggyback onto another rating as rollorblade did in the US with the MTB rating, This adds an 'also suitable for' sentence to the sticker but has a lower cost.
Similar to what Predator have done DH skateboarders have looked for a standard that is relevant to their requirements. Paragliding helmets use the European Standard EN966: this is the specification for helmets for airborne sports. Helmets are tested for shock absorption, specifically against kerbstone impact (simulates being dragged against rocks). Other tests performed are penetration and the strap strength tests. There is a requirement for field of vision, low weight, to be put on and taken off easily, be usable with glasses and not significantly interfere with the ability of the user to receive acoustic ambient information. -
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Permalink Reply by Phill C on
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It was your post encouraging kids to buy a Madrid Bubbler! As you said Groms come to this site for advice and help, and everything said influences what they use and how they act.
Helmets can save lives it is important that people get advice that is acurate.
Surely Australian Standards can give recomendations on which helmet is best suited to their sport out of the options that are made available to them. -
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Phil I work in the skateboard industry and volunteer the rest of my waking time to the community. I give advice to countless kids everyday about skateboard related things, I have a PM box a kilometer long with skateboard questions from groms of which I take the time to reply to every single one. I don't think you will find a kid on this site that thinks I have given them bad advice or not taken the time to give them a considered response.
Australian Standards is a private company that do not give any general advice, If you want to look at the detail of a standard to see if its applicable to you they require you to pay a significant amount of money for every downloaded page. If you re-print or post any of the detail in these documents they sue you for intellectual property breaches. To get a standard proposal up they require a significant amount of paperwork that fulfills an extensive amount of criteria, the criteria is evenly split between safety need and business potential but both need to be satisfied to get an individual rating. The barriers for skateboarding are profound as currently there is no legal requirement to wear helmets and a double kick community that refuses to wear them. This make the business case for this almost impossible. Prior to helmets being required for bicycles this was also a problem for them but when the law changed we suddenly had a prolific amount of helmets and standards for bikes come onto the market -
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Premium MemberPermalink Reply by Trav on -
matty leadfoot said:I still stand by what I said in my opening remarks, but the case "against motorbike helmet" guys cant provide good enough reasons for their side of the argument. You have talked about personal experiences, but the data on road accidents is right there to prove your points mute.
Also you site that you need good vision. Well, some aero helmets you cant even turn around in. Its an argument that is valid to a point and then the rules seem to go out the window.
the data of on road accidents? which of these apply to skateboarding on the road? are you re-applying the same theory to on road cyclist that hit 80km/ h + speeds downhill? are you saying they should look into moto helmets and their light weight helmets aren't good enough??
what aero helmets are referring to that you can't turn around in? the mushroom helmets?, no they aren't practical on a daily ride but during a race they have their place (and you can still look under you arm like you normally would to check behind you whilst wearing one)
i'd like to know why you think your experience and opinions on moto helmets seem to outweigh 1000's of skaters across the world that have tried and tested over many years various helmets and have ended up with lightweight helmets....? -
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Because I feel that riding on the road is different to riding in a race. I think also that the IGSA is allowing for some experimentation with helmets, allowing things that may not be really that safe for the road.
Should we look at race application as the benchmark? They dont have cars backing out of driveways. They dont have trucks coming up in the opposite direction.
As I said before its great that you wear any helmet, I want everyone to make a good decision.
I was thinking the Predator looked hot until Robbo said it was based on a rafting helmet. You ask you learn.
Now I like the other one. ;) -
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Permalink Reply by leighgriffiths on
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what WE should do is just be stoked about the fact that kids these days are wearing helmets! what really gets annoying is first of all people are complaining at kids about putting one on and now people are complaining about what one to use! and your all having a stupid bitch fight about it! far out this is getting ridiculous... it has been stated that a Motorbike helmet is not suitable for what we do, if you personally want to use one then go ahead and use it... if you are keen on the other alternative then go for it. they all have advantages as well as disatvantages and i dont see why you are all sitting behind a computer arguing endlessly over something so simple... i can easily say that most of the people you have directed this discussion to have already tuned out 4 or 5 pages ago because it got reeeeeeaaaaaally boring and annoying...
skaters out there already know what they need to be wearing as far as safety is concerned. there has been years of testing and finding out information to tell the average skater which peice of equipment is suitable for them to use.
do you tell a bowl skater they shouldnt use randals because randals are designed for longboards? and then argue the fact if they still want to?
would you tell a longboarder that the trucks he pulled off his bowl board arent meant to be used on a longboard then also argue that fact?
would you tell a BMX rider to wear a motorbike helmet while rocking the half pipe because they are 'safer for those sorts of hard impacts'?
this is all getting way out of hand. a question was asked, a discussioned was formed, opinions were voiced and now all thats left is a bunch of retards arguing... and skaters on asra logging on to see boring argumentative crap (or even skaters logging OFF for that exact matter) -
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